Herein lies an opinion rant.

"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch) 11/26/2019 at 13:03 • Filed to: rant

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I’ m not that old, I’ m technically a millennial...so why in the past, 6 months to a year do I suddenly feel like I don’t understand the craziness I read on the interwebs these days? I feel like what I see is a lot of emotional appeals in echo chambers that self reinforce opinions and social repression of dissenting opinion, minority or otherwise.

I realize there is a lot of upheaval in the social contract these days, but sometimes I feel like anything that isn’t change is seen as prima facie evidence of a broken belief.

Even little stuff !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! gets me in a twist and frankly “Okay Boomer” kinda pisses me off. Regardless of what boomers may have done (and there is a lot of evidence that its not been good things... this isn’t my argument), it just seems like bringing confrontation for no good reason other than its easy and makes you feel a little better. Like breathing out a quiet “jerk ” when you are mad at your parents as a kid.

This isn’t about that though, i t’ s more that every post that is related to any marginalized community only has one right collective opinion, and there is no room for understanding in the community for people trying and come to grips with the underling message , only outrage and disgust that you aren’t already there .

Religion, politics, gender and race, social etiquette even...its all just “us vs them” and frankly the general attitudes are moving to deepen any divide as opposed to bridging gaps.

I love the comedy shows going to town on the Trumpwreck...but...even I see the embellishments , and hyperbole that push the “us vs them” mentality. I.e. its funny but not helping and even if they all say its for entertainment value its still very powerful in the formation of opinions that drive a wedge. The impeachment has been a great example - the votes are already cast on party lines, and not on evidence and that’ s bullshit. Democrat/republican, religious/seculist, “woke”/”unwoke”, the new generation/old, etc.

We’re digging ourselves in trenches. I am religious, and frankly if you are or aren’t...great. But I do think there is something to be said for the believe that any force that seeks to divide and not unit is a calculated effort to destroy us. I think we are just nuts to fall victim to that common pitfall, and so hard.

That having been said, hawaiian pizza is delicious and you can’t convince me otherwise.  

farscythe - makin da cawfee! > HammerheadFistpunch 11/26/2019 at 13:09

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but its always been us vs them

theres sane reasonable people ... some of them are even religious

and those that like hawaiian pizza

Ash78, voting early and often > HammerheadFistpunch 11/26/2019 at 13:11

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You just got meta-woke . Congratulations, it takes at least 35 years . Yes, we’re all f*cked.

I truly believe that this is the beginning of the end of society as we know it . We won’t live long enough to see climate change matter. This isn’t Trump’s fault. This isn’t the internet’s fault...but at the same time, without the internet, we wouldn’t be in this situation.

One of the greatest inventions in the history of mankind, able to spread free knowledge to every corner of the earth. And we just use it for porn and expressing our anger to like-minded people . The other 1% is for...something else. Business?

HammerheadFistpunch > farscythe - makin da cawfee! 11/26/2019 at 13:12

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I agree that its always been this way, though lately I feel like maybe anyone who has gained a little (deserved/undeserved ) strength in their argument is overplaying their hand to the point of alienating those they would seek to inform.  The only variable I can see is the way the internet gives power to the loudest person in the room.  

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > HammerheadFistpunch 11/26/2019 at 13:15

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Lets take this pineapple on pizza concept to it’s final state:

fintail > HammerheadFistpunch 11/26/2019 at 13:15

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I am glad I can just sit back and watch the shitshow:

On that subject, “OK Boomer” is a little douchey, but the next time my conspiracy theorist Trumpster stereotypical boomer uncle starts spouting off, I am using it on him. He probably won’t get it, embracing the lack of self-awareness owned by so much of the demographic.

HammerheadFistpunch > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 11/26/2019 at 13:17

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I think I got acid reflux looking at that.

CB > HammerheadFistpunch 11/26/2019 at 13:17

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I feel like the internet also makes things a bigger deal than they actually are, either through hyperbole or the echo chamber.

Truth is, we can only do what we can do about this. I’m not going to change the world, only change how I interact with it. Lead by example, and who knows, maybe people will catch on.

farscythe - makin da cawfee! > HammerheadFistpunch 11/26/2019 at 13:18

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its worse on the interwebs for sure...ive still not quite worked out how they all figure insulting the people they want to convince is helping them

Ash78, voting early and often > HammerheadFistpunch 11/26/2019 at 13:18

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“Equal time for nutjobs” as Drew Curtis (Fark founder) used to call it in his books.

Once we stopped properly funding and vetting a real media as the Fourth Estate, we can no longer be certain who to take seriously. Even the traditional media all has an agenda, and most of our mainstream TV/internet news has changed from facts to opinion.

These days, anyone with decent production values and a website can LOOK like a real news outlet. Just look at Breitbart or HuffPost. Both founded by politically opposite, but very intelligent, people. But what are they today?

Nick Has an Exocet > HammerheadFistpunch 11/26/2019 at 13:19

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Not a fan of Hawaiian but to each their own. Not sure why other people can’t be the same way and just let other people be.

I completely agree with you. In fact, I’ve seen plenty of evidence that most of these social movements are doing far more harm than good - particularly economically. I was at a conference recently and there was a panel on “ social justice in marketing” . One of facebook’s higher ups sat up there and said that even though her data says that social campaigns have divided her audience, cost a lot of money, and had negative returns: she will keep doing them because it matters.

This is exactly the dopamine hit that social media has trained people to look for. “Like” culture has created a dependence on getting social one-ups from a localized friend network (people who think exactly the same). I would posit that the marketing team inside of Facebook thinks they are doing good work because they are self-reinforcing. That’s not just true of Facebook these days. It’s true of political parties, celebrities, your friends, etc.

I really don’t know how you can get society off this obsession with little hits of dopamine. Your brain craves the little hearts on instagram, facebook likes, twitter retweets, and pats on the back from friends like caffeinated sugar. Getting off of that diet cold turkey is impossible and potentially disastrous. 

HammerheadFistpunch > Ash78, voting early and often 11/26/2019 at 13:20

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I wish I didn’t agree with you. My hope is that all generations before me felt, to some degree the same way and we’ve made it this far so...that’ s nice.

Media reflects the prevailing attitudes of society and even though that means “B lack Mirror” I sure could use a back to the future II in my life. A little optimism might be nice.

shop-teacher > HammerheadFistpunch 11/26/2019 at 13:20

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The world is full of shades of grey, and those who refuse to recognize that are endlessly frustrating to me. The lack of understanding of context these days is simply stunning, and not in a good way.

Also, you can keep all the Hawaiian n pizza to yourself ... monster.

HammerheadFistpunch > CB 11/26/2019 at 13:21

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As a father and a youth leader I feel like there is still some hope in the rising generation, but it’ s going to take a lot more concerted effort than it used to I think...then again maybe it always did and we just weren’t up to it as a whole.

BlueMazda2 - Blesses the rains down in Africa, Purveyor of BMW Individual Arctic Metallic, Merci Twingo > HammerheadFistpunch 11/26/2019 at 13:23

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Hawaiian pizza is amazing. Anyone who disagrees will have a 600 dispatched to their location immediately.

HammerheadFistpunch > Nick Has an Exocet 11/26/2019 at 13:24

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Oppo’s really my only source of the good hits these days.  I wouldn’t know how to quit it.

CB > HammerheadFistpunch 11/26/2019 at 13:24

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To be frank, you have two perspectives of youth: you as a youth, and you beyond it. As a young person, everything seems grand (unless, like me, you were a Daria-level sarcastic asshole), and you’re still learning that right and wrong thing. As an adult, it’s easy to see youth as inattentive, not thoughtful, raging bags of hormones depending on age.

With the kids I teach, I always try to remember that I spent most of that grade in the principal’s office. It helps with my perspective.

HammerheadFistpunch > BlueMazda2 - Blesses the rains down in Africa, Purveyor of BMW Individual Arctic Metallic, Merci Twingo 11/26/2019 at 13:25

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Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > HammerheadFistpunch 11/26/2019 at 13:27

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It helps to not dwell on it. I just cut out the shit any chance I get.

HammerheadFistpunch > CB 11/26/2019 at 13:28

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It colors my opinions for sure.  What I mean to say is that I actually see a lot of promise in the youth, but its hard to prepare people that age for the battles that I think I didn’t have to fight.  

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > HammerheadFistpunch 11/26/2019 at 13:28

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I believe one of the oldest translations of historical texts translated to “I fear for the youths”. Nothing new to consider that change is on the horizon. Al so important to remember, that we tend to exaggerate the highs and lows of a given generation because it’s easier to do that than to accept that there is no one way to represent a whole generation of people. 

Ash78, voting early and often > HammerheadFistpunch 11/26/2019 at 13:29

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I generally think we’re mostly too lazy to hold a serious revolution, which is a good thing :D

But the key difference today vs prior generations is that many-to-many communication. The same thing that encourages well intentioned protests in HK or Chile or Puerto Rico also allows people with minor grievances the “right” to go overboard very quickly. So if you imagine social ills of 50 years ago, they were like the flu. Now we’re looking at superbugs, epidemics, and it doesn’t take much to set things off any more. Everyone needs to be heard, everyone’s demands are equal!

This makes it impossible for a lot of societies to prioritize what needs change. We’re just chasing squeaky wheels around with WD40. Just ask any corporate customer service agent unlucky enough to be assigned to Twitter.

One thesis might be “The internet has reduced ‘barriers to entry’ in so much of society, it’s hard for anyone to tell what’s valid and what isn’t”

CB > HammerheadFistpunch 11/26/2019 at 13:29

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Ah, gotcha. Yeah, that’s fair.

HammerheadFistpunch > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 11/26/2019 at 13:30

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You aren’t giving bad advice at all, though it bugs me to stand by and watch the world fall apart...or at least its starting to.  Maybe I am old.

HammerheadFistpunch > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 11/26/2019 at 13:31

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Thats a much more positive read on things than Im used to...and thats not saying a lot.  

Nick Has an Exocet > HammerheadFistpunch 11/26/2019 at 13:33

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Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > HammerheadFistpunch 11/26/2019 at 13:35

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If I weren’t married, I would basically have no interactions with anyone, ever, by choice. Save for Oppo and I guess my parents who I like but you know...

Derpwagon > HammerheadFistpunch 11/26/2019 at 13:37

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Hawaiian pizza is garbage.

Ham? On pizza? Be bacon, or be gone.

Pineapple is friggin great though. 

HammerheadFistpunch > Derpwagon 11/26/2019 at 13:39

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I wont say no to a bacon pineapple pizza.

Poor_Sh > Ash78, voting early and often 11/26/2019 at 13:39

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Wait wait wait.... is oppo porn?

Derpwagon > HammerheadFistpunch 11/26/2019 at 13:46

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Nor should you. Treat yo’ self.

Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. > BlueMazda2 - Blesses the rains down in Africa, Purveyor of BMW Individual Arctic Metallic, Merci Twingo 11/26/2019 at 13:48

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I disagree with you. Get those 600 on their way. Hah!

Well, make it just one - I'm not that hungry...

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Nick Has an Exocet 11/26/2019 at 13:50

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I got 3 magic letters for you... E.M.P.

Ash78, voting early and often > Poor_Sh 11/26/2019 at 13:50

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Umm....I’ll plead the fifth.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > HammerheadFistpunch 11/26/2019 at 13:54

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GET OFF MY LAWN, BOOMER!

Wait... that’s not how it goes, is it?

BlueMazda2 - Blesses the rains down in Africa, Purveyor of BMW Individual Arctic Metallic, Merci Twingo > Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. 11/26/2019 at 13:55

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You spoke too soon.

Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. > BlueMazda2 - Blesses the rains down in Africa, Purveyor of BMW Individual Arctic Metallic, Merci Twingo 11/26/2019 at 14:00

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What sort of third-world dictators do you have delivering pizza for you? And that tag in the window makes it look like they just ordered at Carl’s Jr. You are paying for the pizza, aren’t you? Or will the other three in the car ensure that I pay...

That plate’s on the wrong car. It needs to be on this one:

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > HammerheadFistpunch 11/26/2019 at 14:01

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A phrase I got taught a long time ago was “Be mindful that you do not label as malice, what can be explained as ignorance”. Yes, there is often a lot of backlash and it can be hard to explain to those unfamiliar with a radical new concept of its value and use, but we’ve been making it work for the past couple millenia. I mean hell, we survived the generation where saying that the earth orbited the sun would get you burned at the stake.

I think Men in Black put it best:

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > HammerheadFistpunch 11/26/2019 at 14:02

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Not wanting to debate your feelings here, but impeachment is always an entirely political process. It is not the same as a criminal trial, and we will not see or hear ‘evidence’ as such until it proceeds to he Senate. 

MrSnrub > HammerheadFistpunch 11/26/2019 at 14:07

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I think society works kind of like plate tectonics. Tensions build up over time, then release all at once. We’re living in one of those times where the tension has become too great. Another way of putting it is that the old order is collapsing, but the new one is yet to be born. So the future is for the taking, in a manner of speaking, and there is going to be a lot of jostling and arguing about where to go next.

The internet certainly complicates things. I think it has been mostly good in terms of vastly expanding access to information and exposing injustices that were previously hidden, but it can also create a lot of useless noise and enable people to silo themselves in echo chambers.

Tripper > HammerheadFistpunch 11/26/2019 at 14:11

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I’m also an older Millennial, but I can vibe with the youths (at least my colleagues) . The younger people at work are really easy to get a long with and I have a lot more in common with them than I do with the whitehairs and other variants of “olds”. They all just party all the time, which is what I did when I was 18-28. So while I’m far enough removed to “not miss those days”, I’m not so far as to have forgotten them. I won’t go as far to say I understand the youths as a group , but I don’t think I’m meant to.

I don’t really go outside of oppo as far as the open internet is concerned. I actively avoid any sort of news. Even if the information is correct, it’s all spun so negatively I just can’t have it in my life.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > HammerheadFistpunch 11/26/2019 at 14:15

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If “OK” is no good, how about the little blue thumbs-up in iMessage? LOL

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > HammerheadFistpunch 11/26/2019 at 14:16

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Better with jalapenos added.

HammerheadFistpunch > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) 11/26/2019 at 14:17

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I know, but do you think it will change the outcome?

BaconSandwich is tasty. > HammerheadFistpunch 11/26/2019 at 14:19

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Nor would I!

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > HammerheadFistpunch 11/26/2019 at 14:19

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Yeah, this is better.

HammerheadFistpunch > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 11/26/2019 at 14:19

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boourns.  

Sovande > HammerheadFistpunch 11/26/2019 at 14:19

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!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

This is essentially the basis of all religion, as far as I can tell. Not a believer?  Then off to hell you go.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > HammerheadFistpunch 11/26/2019 at 14:21

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One of our local joint’s specials:

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > HammerheadFistpunch 11/26/2019 at 14:24

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No. His ‘team’ are going to defend him at all costs regardless of how large a case for him to removed from office there is; and the case is so large it makes the sun look like a spec of dust. 

HammerheadFistpunch > Sovande 11/26/2019 at 14:25

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I think there is a lot of that force in some religion, historically and in modern times.  My beliefs are that we are invited but free to make our own choices knowing full well there will be an adversarial force on earth with the intent to destroy us if we allow it.  No choice, no growth.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > HammerheadFistpunch 11/26/2019 at 14:26

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It’s great t hat the internet gives everyone a voice, but it means we’re confronted by differing opinions all the time. “Back in the day” as it were, in fo wasn’t disseminated as thoroughly. You and your neighbor read the same newspaper, written by t he s ame people, and that was your exposure to the world so both of your worldviews were shape d by the same in fluences.

Now I think people are just so overwhelmed by the sheer volume of opinions they're exposed to that all we can do is dig our heels into the dirt and refuse to listen to any, else our heads will start spinning 

HammerheadFistpunch > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) 11/26/2019 at 14:26

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Exactly.  Predetermined based on tribalism.  

Sovande > HammerheadFistpunch 11/26/2019 at 14:46

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My  belief is that we live an average of 78 years and during that time we make a series of decisions that impact those around us. I believe that the nicer we are to one another, the better off we will all be. Nowhere in my worldview does it exist that people whose opinion is different than my own will suffer eternal damnation. Because that would be fucking crazy.

HammerheadFistpunch > Sovande 11/26/2019 at 14:54

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I hear ya.  Remembering that damnation as its traditionally taught is some kind of hell, where it could also be seen as a dam or stop to progress.  Not being cast into a worse state, but being prevented from progressing.  In that sense there is no punishment but for missing out on a greater state.  

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > HammerheadFistpunch 11/26/2019 at 15:36

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I’m eating a variation on Hawaiian pizza right now.

SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media > HammerheadFistpunch 11/26/2019 at 15:57

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Does it help any to know that things were not dissimilar before the Internet? I t’s just they weren’t quite as enabled in terms of scale and speed...

HammerheadFistpunch > SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media 11/26/2019 at 15:58

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A little.

Textured Soy Protein > HammerheadFistpunch 11/26/2019 at 16:11

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There is definitely a right and wrong side to many issues. The people on the wrong side might have their reasons but that doesn’t make them right, and sometimes if their wrong idea harms others they need to be fought . If they’re not going to be convinced to change, they need to be stopped .

The only difference between now and earlier eras of social upheaval is that everyone is more able to communicate their shitty opinions with more people more quickly.

HammerheadFistpunch > Textured Soy Protein 11/26/2019 at 16:13

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yes but they shouldn’t be stopped for starting.  I feel like even trying to get a handle on an issue you don’t understand is a risk in getting labeled or torn apart.  

Textured Soy Protein > HammerheadFistpunch 11/26/2019 at 16:42

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The people who need to be fought/stopped are the ones who long ago made up their mind to be on the wrong side of an issue. At some point, right-minded people have to say, no, this person is wrong and if they won’t be convinced they need to be counteracted.

I think part of what you’re reacting to is we as a society have been on this path for the past 50-ish years where little by little we’re realizing, hey, maybe we should stop being shitty to groups who historically have been shat on. That’s become increasingly the case even within the past few years especially in the wake of #metoo.

But it’s still a gradual process, because a little too often, the people who have historically been doing the shitting- on either A) don’t realize they’ve been doing the shitting-on and don’t like being told that they have been, or B) actively enjoy doing the shitting-on and cling to their ability to do so.

HammerheadFistpunch > Textured Soy Protein 11/26/2019 at 16:51

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I’ m glad you’ve shared this and felt comfortable doing so, but I can’t agree. I see what you are saying but I think it plays too much into the us vs them argument. 

Textured Soy Protein > HammerheadFistpunch 11/26/2019 at 16:59

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I’m perfectly comfortable with us vs them when it’s necessary . 

It’s not always necessary.

HammerheadFistpunch > Textured Soy Protein 11/26/2019 at 17:00

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I feel its very rarely ever necessary .

Textured Soy Protein > HammerheadFistpunch 11/26/2019 at 17:03

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I say this as someone who has experienced a great deal of privilege in life thanks to my skin color and economic status, but also as a member of multiple traditionally shat-upon groups:

You don’t compromise with someone who wants to shit on your face. Unless you’re into that sort of thing.

nermal > HammerheadFistpunch 11/26/2019 at 17:25

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You are simply getting old. The same thing happened to your parents, and their parents, and their parents, and so on . 

On the plus side, somebody made a tinfoil MAGA hat, and this image is readily and easily available, from just about anywhere in the world, in a few seconds.

DipodomysDeserti > Ash78, voting early and often 11/26/2019 at 17:25

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“ I truly believe that this is the beginning of the end of society as we know it.”

I’m currently eating fish and chips and drinking a pint in the same town my ancestors left Ireland from after almost starving to death. It’s the same town my great grandfather (from the other side of my family) was docked in during WWI as his destroyer rested from hunting U boats. There’s a memorial around the corner for people killed on the Lusitania, many of whom are buried in the local graveyard.

Society is going to be just fine. There will always be fear mongers trying to make a buck of societal strife.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > HammerheadFistpunch 11/26/2019 at 22:54

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pineapple pizza is only good if the pineapple is diced. Once got it from a place that used whole slices. Soggy mess.  

I look at the internet as the printing press 3.0. (Tv and radio being 2.0 )

pip bip - choose Corrour > HammerheadFistpunch 11/27/2019 at 03:08

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hawaiian pizza is delicious , agreed.

the world sadly is just  becoming more and more intolerant

Ash78, voting early and often > DipodomysDeserti 11/27/2019 at 08:57

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#Perspective

I sometimes comically think what our REAL hardships might have been like if we had social media. Because today, everything is painted like a disaster or emergency. I think it’s the fact that we’ve gone so long without one (although to me, 9/11 feels like 5 years years...)

Enjoy your trip! I love the British Isles, even in the chilly drizzle. It adds character to the experience . And always fun to visit the place your ancestors came from — that’s something I did several years ago in Croatia (my grandmother’s homeland for 10+ generations) and it’s a very special experience that not everyone gets to do.